<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?><rss version="2.0"
	xmlns:content="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/content/"
	xmlns:dc="http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/"
	xmlns:atom="http://www.w3.org/2005/Atom"
	>
<channel>
	<title>Comments on: Arabs to Israel:  Assume a can opener</title>
	<atom:link href="http://likelihoodofsuccess.com/2007/03/29/arabs-to-israel-assume-a-can-opener/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://likelihoodofsuccess.com/2007/03/29/arabs-to-israel-assume-a-can-opener/</link>
	<description>Ron Coleman's pretty good blog</description>
	<pubDate>Thu, 24 Jul 2008 02:03:46 +0000</pubDate>
	<generator>http://wordpress.org/?v=MU</generator>
		<item>
		<title>By: Bob Miller</title>
		<link>http://likelihoodofsuccess.com/2007/03/29/arabs-to-israel-assume-a-can-opener/#comment-688</link>
		<dc:creator>Bob Miller</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 30 Mar 2007 12:59:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://likelihoodofsuccess.com/2007/03/29/arabs-to-israel-assume-a-can-opener/#comment-688</guid>
		<description>"And the Arab governments are going to pay some price for having spun up those masses in a quest for the impossible."

Such as what price?  Before or after we cease our dependency on Arab oil?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;And the Arab governments are going to pay some price for having spun up those masses in a quest for the impossible.&#8221;</p>
<p>Such as what price?  Before or after we cease our dependency on Arab oil?</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: John Burgess</title>
		<link>http://likelihoodofsuccess.com/2007/03/29/arabs-to-israel-assume-a-can-opener/#comment-675</link>
		<dc:creator>John Burgess</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 30 Mar 2007 03:21:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://likelihoodofsuccess.com/2007/03/29/arabs-to-israel-assume-a-can-opener/#comment-675</guid>
		<description>As much as the pose is "we're not negotiating," it is a pose. Arab governments know that a full right of return is not going to happen. They are waiting to hear what solution/compensation is on offer. The Arab governments need to maintain the posture at present because there's nothing else they can point to and say, "See, negotiation is working." 

The Arab masses are not going to be pleased with any deal short of the ideal, but they're going to have to lump it. And the Arab governments are going to pay some price for having spun up those masses in a quest for the impossible.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As much as the pose is &#8220;we&#8217;re not negotiating,&#8221; it is a pose. Arab governments know that a full right of return is not going to happen. They are waiting to hear what solution/compensation is on offer. The Arab governments need to maintain the posture at present because there&#8217;s nothing else they can point to and say, &#8220;See, negotiation is working.&#8221; </p>
<p>The Arab masses are not going to be pleased with any deal short of the ideal, but they&#8217;re going to have to lump it. And the Arab governments are going to pay some price for having spun up those masses in a quest for the impossible.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Ephraim</title>
		<link>http://likelihoodofsuccess.com/2007/03/29/arabs-to-israel-assume-a-can-opener/#comment-667</link>
		<dc:creator>Ephraim</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 30 Mar 2007 00:10:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://likelihoodofsuccess.com/2007/03/29/arabs-to-israel-assume-a-can-opener/#comment-667</guid>
		<description>The Arab insistence on the "right of return" is a dead giveaway that they are not serious. They expect Israel to refuse, as it must. They wll then use this a pretext ("He didn't accept my demand that he swallow rat poison! He has refused peace!") for going to war again.

The Arabs have as much right to return to "Palestine" as the Germans have to return to the Sudetenland.

That is, none whatsoever.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The Arab insistence on the &#8220;right of return&#8221; is a dead giveaway that they are not serious. They expect Israel to refuse, as it must. They wll then use this a pretext (&#8221;He didn&#8217;t accept my demand that he swallow rat poison! He has refused peace!&#8221 <img src='http://s.wordpress.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';)' class='wp-smiley' /> for going to war again.</p>
<p>The Arabs have as much right to return to &#8220;Palestine&#8221; as the Germans have to return to the Sudetenland.</p>
<p>That is, none whatsoever.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Jack</title>
		<link>http://likelihoodofsuccess.com/2007/03/29/arabs-to-israel-assume-a-can-opener/#comment-652</link>
		<dc:creator>Jack</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 29 Mar 2007 21:47:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://likelihoodofsuccess.com/2007/03/29/arabs-to-israel-assume-a-can-opener/#comment-652</guid>
		<description>Who’s first?

That's always the question ain't it?

But if you ask me swallowing poison isn't much of a meal. It don't do much for the digestion either.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Who’s first?</p>
<p>That&#8217;s always the question ain&#8217;t it?</p>
<p>But if you ask me swallowing poison isn&#8217;t much of a meal. It don&#8217;t do much for the digestion either.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Ron Coleman</title>
		<link>http://likelihoodofsuccess.com/2007/03/29/arabs-to-israel-assume-a-can-opener/#comment-641</link>
		<dc:creator>Ron Coleman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 29 Mar 2007 18:27:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://likelihoodofsuccess.com/2007/03/29/arabs-to-israel-assume-a-can-opener/#comment-641</guid>
		<description>Well, put it this way -- you want to both swallow poison?  Sure, I'm game.

Who's first?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well, put it this way &#8212; you want to both swallow poison?  Sure, I&#8217;m game.</p>
<p>Who&#8217;s first?</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Jack</title>
		<link>http://likelihoodofsuccess.com/2007/03/29/arabs-to-israel-assume-a-can-opener/#comment-640</link>
		<dc:creator>Jack</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 29 Mar 2007 18:20:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://likelihoodofsuccess.com/2007/03/29/arabs-to-israel-assume-a-can-opener/#comment-640</guid>
		<description>When you assume a can opener then you make an ass outta the guy who invented the pop top.

I say, "Always prepare for the easy open, but if it doesn't work, then have a real can opener ready for action."

It pays to be prepared, because assumptions are like miracles. It's good when they happen, just don't plan on their timely arrival.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>When you assume a can opener then you make an ass outta the guy who invented the pop top.</p>
<p>I say, &#8220;Always prepare for the easy open, but if it doesn&#8217;t work, then have a real can opener ready for action.&#8221;</p>
<p>It pays to be prepared, because assumptions are like miracles. It&#8217;s good when they happen, just don&#8217;t plan on their timely arrival.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Ron Coleman</title>
		<link>http://likelihoodofsuccess.com/2007/03/29/arabs-to-israel-assume-a-can-opener/#comment-637</link>
		<dc:creator>Ron Coleman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 29 Mar 2007 17:33:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://likelihoodofsuccess.com/2007/03/29/arabs-to-israel-assume-a-can-opener/#comment-637</guid>
		<description>John, it's great having someone with your level of expertise participate in this discussion.  In fact, I don't consider Robert dispositive on this topic, in part because his focus is on Islam and not on 20th-century Arab politics which while they are informed, obviously, by Muslim culture, have frequently been anything but Islamic. Of course the question of treaty compliance by Arab governments is hardly an Israel-Arab issue alone.  

I am going to read your article and get reacquainted with your blog and come back and comment some more.

UPDATED:  John, I read your article (and fixed the URL link on your comment), and I must tell you I agree with you about the need in principle to "swallow poison" -- in principle.  In practice, it is not even what Saudi Arabia suggested -- it is clearly very committed to the "right of return" (for Arabs in Palestine, not for Jews expelled from Arab countries).  The problem with this formulation, however, is that there is a far greater imbalance of risk in that diet than most of your readers seem willing to appreciate.  In short, the Arab world is suggesting it would have been better to accept the 1948 partition plan because, after all, it seems that it won't be so easy to get rid of the Jews. 

You suggest all that has happened since then is bitter water that must be allowed to flow under the bridge -- but it is more than that.  I agree with you that wrongs will never be righted, and that the goal must be to find a way to live side by side in some tolerable way.  The 1948 plan was premised, because of the high degree of strategic vulnerability, on immediate and essentially complete mutual toleration.  The ensuing 60 years have demonstrated that this could not exist.  Those 1948 borders are utterly indefensible.  Meanwhile, the Arabs have only become radicalized -- it is almost an understatement -- to an extent not even imaginable in 1948, when even contemporary Arab leaders who suggested coexistence were assassinated.  What good are the signatures of governments that have spent two generations demonizing the Jews on a level comparable to the Nazis (a phenomenon you recognize) when the "Arab street," including the Palestinians whose territory is now to be essentially interwoven into Jewish Palestine, have grown up on more than a half a century of bloodllust?

Israel would have been wise, as cynical as it sounds, to call Arabia's bluff here, though.  In fact Syria, Iran and the remaining ultra-rejectionists would not and could not have signed such an agreement.  Nor would the Hamas government of Arab Palestine.  

That doesn't mean I have a solution.  I don't.  I actually believe in land for peace, not because it is right or even, in every instance, strategically wise, but because Israel is at a long-term strategic and political disadvantage in so many ways that it has little choice but to surrender tactically where it can to preserve resources.  But the concept of "agree to our conditions" as a premise of negotiations is preposterous unless, as I suggest, the entire exercise is not really a sincere endeavor anyway.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>John, it&#8217;s great having someone with your level of expertise participate in this discussion.  In fact, I don&#8217;t consider Robert dispositive on this topic, in part because his focus is on Islam and not on 20th-century Arab politics which while they are informed, obviously, by Muslim culture, have frequently been anything but Islamic. Of course the question of treaty compliance by Arab governments is hardly an Israel-Arab issue alone.  </p>
<p>I am going to read your article and get reacquainted with your blog and come back and comment some more.</p>
<p>UPDATED:  John, I read your article (and fixed the URL link on your comment), and I must tell you I agree with you about the need in principle to &#8220;swallow poison&#8221; &#8212; in principle.  In practice, it is not even what Saudi Arabia suggested &#8212; it is clearly very committed to the &#8220;right of return&#8221; (for Arabs in Palestine, not for Jews expelled from Arab countries).  The problem with this formulation, however, is that there is a far greater imbalance of risk in that diet than most of your readers seem willing to appreciate.  In short, the Arab world is suggesting it would have been better to accept the 1948 partition plan because, after all, it seems that it won&#8217;t be so easy to get rid of the Jews. </p>
<p>You suggest all that has happened since then is bitter water that must be allowed to flow under the bridge &#8212; but it is more than that.  I agree with you that wrongs will never be righted, and that the goal must be to find a way to live side by side in some tolerable way.  The 1948 plan was premised, because of the high degree of strategic vulnerability, on immediate and essentially complete mutual toleration.  The ensuing 60 years have demonstrated that this could not exist.  Those 1948 borders are utterly indefensible.  Meanwhile, the Arabs have only become radicalized &#8212; it is almost an understatement &#8212; to an extent not even imaginable in 1948, when even contemporary Arab leaders who suggested coexistence were assassinated.  What good are the signatures of governments that have spent two generations demonizing the Jews on a level comparable to the Nazis (a phenomenon you recognize) when the &#8220;Arab street,&#8221; including the Palestinians whose territory is now to be essentially interwoven into Jewish Palestine, have grown up on more than a half a century of bloodllust?</p>
<p>Israel would have been wise, as cynical as it sounds, to call Arabia&#8217;s bluff here, though.  In fact Syria, Iran and the remaining ultra-rejectionists would not and could not have signed such an agreement.  Nor would the Hamas government of Arab Palestine.  </p>
<p>That doesn&#8217;t mean I have a solution.  I don&#8217;t.  I actually believe in land for peace, not because it is right or even, in every instance, strategically wise, but because Israel is at a long-term strategic and political disadvantage in so many ways that it has little choice but to surrender tactically where it can to preserve resources.  But the concept of &#8220;agree to our conditions&#8221; as a premise of negotiations is preposterous unless, as I suggest, the entire exercise is not really a sincere endeavor anyway.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: John Burgess</title>
		<link>http://likelihoodofsuccess.com/2007/03/29/arabs-to-israel-assume-a-can-opener/#comment-633</link>
		<dc:creator>John Burgess</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 29 Mar 2007 16:19:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://likelihoodofsuccess.com/2007/03/29/arabs-to-israel-assume-a-can-opener/#comment-633</guid>
		<description>Ron, truly sorry you consider Robert Spencer dispositive. 

I refer you to the &lt;a href="http://asharqalawsat.com/english/news.asp?section=2&#38;id=6384" rel="nofollow"&gt;op-ed I co-authored&lt;/a&gt; with David Perlmutter in &lt;em&gt;Asharq Alawsat&lt;/em&gt; last year.

I also call your attention to the desperation for a solution to this problem that is evidenced in Arab media across the region. There's lots of it to be read at my blog.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ron, truly sorry you consider Robert Spencer dispositive. </p>
<p>I refer you to the <a href="http://asharqalawsat.com/english/news.asp?section=2&amp;id=6384" rel="nofollow">op-ed I co-authored</a> with David Perlmutter in <em>Asharq Alawsat</em> last year.</p>
<p>I also call your attention to the desperation for a solution to this problem that is evidenced in Arab media across the region. There&#8217;s lots of it to be read at my blog.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Bob Miller</title>
		<link>http://likelihoodofsuccess.com/2007/03/29/arabs-to-israel-assume-a-can-opener/#comment-630</link>
		<dc:creator>Bob Miller</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 29 Mar 2007 14:55:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://likelihoodofsuccess.com/2007/03/29/arabs-to-israel-assume-a-can-opener/#comment-630</guid>
		<description>The historical world class liars of humanity now want to offer assurances.  What a great deal.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The historical world class liars of humanity now want to offer assurances.  What a great deal.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
</channel>
</rss>
